XY problem, XY question: Difference between revisions

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{{warning|'''X and Y got reversed between first mention, and people picking up this concept. Ignore which one is X and Y, the importance is their separations}}
{{warning|'''X and Y got reversed between first mention of this idea, and people picking up this concept mode widely. Ignore which one is X and Y, the importance is their separation}}




 
Building on [http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem this] summary:
I like [http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem this] summary:


* User wants to do X.
* User wants to do X.
* User doesn't know how to do X, but thinks they can fumble their way to a solution if they can just manage to do Y.
* User doesn't know how to do X, but thinks they can probably solve it if they can just manage to do Y.
* User doesn't know how to do Y either.
* User doesn't know how to do Y either.
* User asks for help with Y.
* User asks for help with Y.


To everyone else the only thing they see is
 
Sometimes this works, sometimes it's the most awkward possible way to arrive at a good solution.
 
Sometimes you get a better solution, in less time, by involving the other person.
 
 
Because to everyone else the only thing they see is
* User asks for help with Y.
* User asks for help with Y.
* Others try to help user with Y, but are confused because Y seems like a strange problem to want to solve.
* Others try to help user with Y, but are confused because Y seems like a strange problem to want to solve.
* After much interaction and wasted time, it finally becomes clear that the user really wants help with X, and that Y was a dead end.
* After much interaction and wasted time, it finally becomes clear that the user really wants help with X, and that Y was a dead end.


After more inquiry, it becomes clear that what happened is:
* (User has problem X.)
* Rather than asking for help with X, you think up a Y, ask someone to help with Y, ''omitting all existence of X''.
* (User asks for help with Y.)
* (Others try to help user with Y, but are confused because Y seems like a strange problem to want to solve.)
* (Others waste a lot of time coming up with partial solutions, user says no, actually, I needed question variant Y2, Y3, ...
* Others eventually find out, ask, find out about X, find a much more elegant way to do X
* Others point out the existence of XY problem
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Examples:
* programming:
** Y: "How can I get the last three characters of a filename?"
** presumable X: "How can I get the file extension?"
** in this case the a proper answer to Y would not be a robust fix to X (file extensions can have more than three characters since the nineties, and less than three characters since always)
I rather like [http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem this one]:
* Y: "How can I get the size of a file within a shell script"
* X: "How do I detect minor changes in a file changes without transferring the whole file, and transfer just the changes because my network connection is slow?"
* this one is ''several'' steps away from its origin (a middle question would be something like "How do I do a rolling hash of a file") The person is trying to implement a complex thing themselves, -- without checking whether a tool like that exists. It does, it's called [[rsync]].
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'''What would have been much more useful''' is to phrase it like "How do we do step Y to get to goal X?",
 
 
 
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'''What would have been much more useful''' is to double check you're solving the same issue.
 
The person who got asked can take a moment to ask "what are you trying to get done?"
 
If you're aware this stuff happens, the person who asks can also try to avoid such issues by
phrase the question like "How do we do step Y to get to goal X?",
when cooperatively working on something, or asking for assistance.
when cooperatively working on something, or asking for assistance.




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http://xyproblem.info/
https://medium.com/swlh/90-of-the-battle-is-won-when-we-solve-the-xy-problem-in-product-management-5a7aef1fa4fa
https://www.perlmonks.org/?node=XY+Problem
https://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem
https://blog.lelonek.me/how-to-solve-an-xy-problem-8ff54765cf79




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http://xyproblem.info/
https://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem
https://medium.com/swlh/90-of-the-battle-is-won-when-we-solve-the-xy-problem-in-product-management-5a7aef1fa4fa
https://www.perlmonks.org/?node=XY+Problem
https://blog.lelonek.me/how-to-solve-an-xy-problem-8ff54765cf79


https://artyom.me/yx
https://artyom.me/yx


 
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal
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Latest revision as of 14:30, 31 March 2024





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